Trade Management using Tight Stops

Ok... Lastly... My main frustration is if you understand what Al says shouldn't everyone get he same results? Give or take. At least in retrospect?

Not really. Everyone has different styles of trading and different strategies they apply. So, results are bound to vary wildly. Not to mention, not everyone stays in the market all through the day.

Like a guideline a baseline? It's the old, "it's not if I'm profitable or not but whether or not I followed the rules."

Like I said, if you're profitable then great! But, I don't think the way you're trading, you're very relaxed while doing so and most importantly, you're probably not enjoying yourself. You need to do whatever you need to do, to reach that place. Otherwise, you will get burnt out and most importantly trade incorrectly, losing money and getting frustrated. If you're not profitable, then reduce your trading size, go back to basics and start from scratch once more. If you have completed the course once or a few times before, it should get easier.

I'm not sure how to ask? How do I know how Al would have traded that day so I know how he did and most importantly where did he exit his trades?

Show your trades, ask here. You can even consider joining Al's webinar although I have never been part of it. Experienced members might be able to guide you through it.

It seems we all know where to enter. To me it really isn't as important as the exit. So I'm usually referring to the exit.

All you have to do, is keep asking and not stop asking till you are clear. You will eventually get there. If you find any inconsistencies in the answers, do point that out. If you do, you will tacitly be helping the community as sooner or later, others will be facing the problem, ones that you are facing if the problem is relevant.

Hopefully, this marks a real start to your successful and happy trading career.

Cheers!

How do I know how Al would have traded that day so I know how he did and most importantly where did he exit his trades

You have several options for that:

* Asking live at the end of the webinar.

* Webinar suscribers can also ask one question in the forum.

* Using the daily setups charts, you can see both if your trade was good (if he marked it on the chart, especially if it is a blue-rectangle trade) and where to exit (on the next oppossite signal).

Yes, in this last point it is not how he traded, but it includes how he did trade that day unless you think he teaches one thing and trades other, in which case there is no point to be here. 

Maybe he is always taking smaller stops than me. Wider. Maybe he's super active with his stops. Maybe he did what I did that day and maybe he held all day? (Which in RETROSPECT I wish I would have done.) What did he do and how did he manage them?

Trade management is, in my opinion, the big misssing point on Al's teachings but, again, you can ask both live and in the forum.

It seems we all know where to enter. To me it really isn't as important as the exit

To make money, you get or lose the difference of your entry and your exit so both are equally important. The good poing about a good entry is that, in general, it is much easier to manage and even tho you take a less-than-perfect exit, you will make money. This is why it is recommended to everyone not profitable yet to focus only in the blue-rectangle trades. 

Trade management is, in my opinion, the big misssing point on Al's teachings but, again, you can ask both live and in the forum.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to speak with Richard and Al about it then? I think, we can get an idea about what Al is thinking regarding exits if nothing else. Someone probably asked him regarding the same on his blog, about exits for the entries. Al was then busy and probably still is, with other projects in progress.

I think the new live trades series should help on this matter. There is one more video today (I haven't watched yet) so let's see if it really helps to fill this gap. 

Oh thank you! I didn't notice. That last live video (of course now that I've done the course) answered MORE questions than thousands of worded questions.

Those are basically what I'm looking for. Actual senarios. Anyone who actually trades know what I mean.

In my opinion you cannot teach that in retrospect.

So excited!!! Thanks all have a good day!

I tend to leave comments alone on the brookstradingcourse website, but I have to chime in on this one. I have been studying Al brooks since the latter part of 2012, and I am proud of that. Not trying to be bashful, but all I am saying is I have had a long time to think about Al's course, webinar, and overall material. Anyone who has watched Al's video course will understand that the course is split into two separate courses. The first part, as to how to read price action. The second part, how to trade/manage trades.

As far as the webinar goes, I have probably seen over 400+ full webinar days of the trading room; I am not bragging, just being honest and here to give my viewpoint on a few things. 

I have had plenty of moments of frustration studying Al's material throughout the years. Heck, I have been so frustrated I remember throwing my mouse on the ground and breaking in in 2014. I still remember to this day how angry/frustrated I was. I'll be honest and say studying Al's work/trading has been the most challenging thing I have ever done. 

To those of you that are upset over Al's videos and how they do not show trade management, there is one ingredient you all are missing. It takes a long time of studying, experience trading, losing money, making money, making stupid decisions, and many other things. I know that is not the popular answer, but it is the truth. This whole argument being made that Al never talks about trade management is false. The statement that Al is just recently talking about this entire buy the close and exit a few points below a bull bar, or below a beer bar, I heard him mention back in 2013-2015 in webinars.

The good news is the more you study Al, the easier it gets. Today, I don't break electronics (haha, I have to laugh at myself on this one). When I make dumb mistakes, I shrug them off and move on. I have asked all of these questions you guys are asking, and eventually, the lightbulb goes off, and I suddenly realize perhaps why Al structured the course the way he did. Today I would tell you the course structure is genuinely genius (Thanks Al and Richard, for the hard work). 

All in all, I had made hundreds of trading plans and threw them in the trash, and started over. I eventually learned that every loss I took in trading was a learning moment of "what am I, not understanding" the Best advice I can give is to stop being frustrated with where you are and start asking what I am not understanding. If you are losing most days, start looking for patterns. 

Another piece of advice would be to have a fallback trading plan; mine will always be Always In Trading. So if you are losing and taking a bunch of limit orders, stop, take a breath, and start trading more Always in (swing trading).

Overall there is trade management all over in Al's Work, and it just takes a long time to start to see all of it. 

If anyone is interested, I have several videos reviewing the overall Emini market. Please note this is just my viewpoint on what I have learned from Al. You will learn way more by studying Al's course than my youtube channel below, but I wanted to share as a reference. 

Brad Wolff - YouTube

I hope this helps. 

My main frustration is if you understand what Al says shouldn't everyone get he same results? Give or take. At least in retrospect?

Like a guideline a baseline? It's the old, "it's not if I'm profitable or not but whether or not I followed the rules."

I'm not sure how to ask? How do I know how Al would have traded that day so I know how he did and most importantly where did he exit his trades?

Dear Sand,

How Al or others are trading is not important. You're on a different level of experience, you have different account size, you live in a different time zone, you're prepared to risk more/less, you have different spread/commission, or have small kids having to take care of while trading... just to name some.

Answer to your first question is clearly: No. There is no fixed set of rules. Al is always saying there are many different trading styles to enter or exit on every given tick. He's explaining what those styles might be. Not what he is personally doing. He mentioned several times, that he likes high probability trades, so I conclude he's often going for some kind of scalping. However, during live trading, he's analysis is more conservative, probably because there are many beginners who are absolutely not advised to scalp and that might cause discrepancy between he's saying and what is he actually doing on every given day. He's is also legally bounded and may not give specifics of his trades.

Further, it would be impossible to present all entry/exit points for every tick and every trading style during the live trading session, the amount of information would be overwhelming.

Regarding "the rules", Al is very explicit on this. I'm paraphrasing him here: "There is no such thing as a set of rules you have to follow... because if there was such thing everyone would have followed it and there would be no one left to take the other side of a trade. There would be no market anymore". This is a fundamental true, worth remembering.

Regarding premature exits. Once I go for a swing, or scalp it doesn't mean I'm married to my position. Situation on the markets can change from one tick to another, but I do have a plan in advance and I stick to it.

What was your plan on the last trade of that day?

Judging your chart I'd say you're in over-trading mode, but if it makes you happy and profitable it's okay.

The last thing is psychology. Once you understand your emotional state, your PL will drastically improve.

With kind regards,

Posted by: @in

My main frustration is if you understand what Al says shouldn't everyone get he same results? Give or take. At least in retrospect?

Like a guideline a baseline? It's the old, "it's not if I'm profitable or not but whether or not I followed the rules."

I'm not sure how to ask? How do I know how Al would have traded that day so I know how he did and most importantly where did he exit his trades?

I was trying (unsuccessful) to make a point about people trying to trade like Al WHEN EVEN AL DOESN'T HAVE A WAY TO TRADE. He has a way of organizing the market in his head.

Dear Sand,

 

How Al or others are trading is not important. You're on a different level of experience, you have different account size, you live in a different time zone, you're prepared to risk more/less, you have different spread/commission, or have small kids having to take care of while trading... just to name some.

Exactly! That's my point too.

Answer to your first question is clearly: No. There is no fixed set of rules. Al is always saying there are many different trading styles to enter or exit on every given tick. He's explaining what those styles might be. Not what he is personally doing. He mentioned several times, that he likes high probability trades, so I conclude he's often going for some kind of scalping. However, during live trading, he's analysis is more conservative, probably because there are many beginners who are absolutely not advised to scalp and that might cause discrepancy between he's saying and what is he actually doing on every given day.

Again totally agree. So if he doesn't trade the way he says, what is he teaching? How are we supposed to trade? (Rhetorical question)

He's is also legally bounded and may not give specifics of his trades.

No that's patently false. This is the ONE that really bothers me. NO he's NOT. That is a COMPLETE LIE! Right from Al's mouth. Maybe he actually believes that. I dunno. I doubt it. I'll leave it at that.

Further, it would be impossible to present all entry/exit points for every tick and every trading style during the live trading session, the amount of information would be overwhelming.

Not if your only calling out your trades. Especially after the fact. Why not after the fact?

Regarding "the rules", Al is very explicit on this. I'm paraphrasing him here: "There is no such thing as a set of rules you have to follow... because if there was such thing everyone would have followed it and there would be no one left to take the other side of a trade. There would be no market anymore". This is a fundamental true, worth remembering.

Again... EXACTLY!!! I agree %1000!!!

Regarding premature exits. Once I go for a swing, or scalp it doesn't mean I'm married to my position. Situation on the markets can change from one tick to another, but I do have a plan in advance and I stick to it.

??? Well that's a contradiction. I'm never married to my position but I have a plan and stick to it?

But again I agree with the first part. The great Mike Reed used to say every trade starts as a scalp.

What was your plan on the last trade of that day?

Not sure what your referring to? Gladly give you my thoughts if I could see.

Judging your chart I'd say you're in over-trading mode, but if it makes you happy and profitable it's okay.

Yeup it does make me happy and profitable. I like to think of my trading now as defensive. (Years in the making and still and always working on it) I'll try to catch moves but will get out many times if I have to.

The last thing is psychology. Once you understand your emotional state, your PL will drastically improve.

I think that's reversed. Your psychology will change once you require the requisite skill to match the task.

With kind regards,

Yes. With kind regards.

(P.S. I really like the discussions in here. We all can discuss and learn and grow.)

Dear Sand,

As far as I'm informed, following the EU regulation, telling people when to buy/sell is a "financial advisory", especially if you own specific security yourself, one must have a license from the national regulatory body for giving such advice. Also, when someone gives advice during live trading session and it turns to be a loss, the reaction of the audience is disappointment, which is not good for the learning curve. Third reason would be simultaneous talking, thinking from all possible trading styles and managing one or more positions - very hard imho.

I don't know if you followed most recent webinars, but Al is sometimes saying (afterwards) that he has had a specific position and also where he has entered and exited.

On the second question, having a trading plan for me also includes a clearly defined (my) rules for premature exiting. So, as long as preconditions are satisfied I'm sitting tight. But, if e.g. a strong reversal bar appears around specific significant level, I might consider early exit, but not before that, and not on weak counter-trend signal, or dojis. Sometimes I also want to see a second entry for always in counter trend before I exit, especially during the strong trend.

I was asking about your trading plan, in regard to the the second last trade, on the high of the day, you mentioned on the image below (you've posted it about a week ago).

With kind regards,

Posted by: @in

Dear Sand,

 

As far as I'm informed, following the EU regulation, telling people when to buy/sell is a "financial advisory", especially if you own specific security yourself, one must have a license from the national regulatory body for giving such advice. Also, when someone gives advice during live trading session and it turns to be a loss, the reaction of the audience is disappointment, which is not good for the learning curve. Third reason would be simultaneous talking, thinking from all possible trading styles and managing one or more positions - very hard imho.

Yeup. I believe your right on all accounts.

Could he not detail why he did what he did at least 24 hrs later. I get why he doesn't do it live and he doesn't have to do anything. He already does more than anyone in the tradesphere and I've said that before but this just makes no sense that someone could get in trouble for explaining a closed trade they made in the past? Especially the distant past.

I don't know if you followed most recent webinars, but Al is sometimes saying (afterwards) that he has had a specific position and also where he has entered and exited.

Oh. That's exactly it. I know when I was in his room he let people ask questions at the end of the day. He would say I entered here or here and exited somewhere in here, usually. I think that's his way of getting around any idea that he was suggesting trades, which is a No-No, but he could still be as helpful as possible.

Again. Could he not disclose/discuss his trades after the fact?

I'm not asking him to. I'm asking if he legally can?

On the second question, having a trading plan for me also includes a clearly defined (my) rules for premature exiting. So, as long as preconditions are satisfied I'm sitting tight. But, if e.g. a strong reversal bar appears around specific significant level, I might consider early exit, but not before that, and not on weak counter-trend signal, or dojis. Sometimes I also want to see a second entry for always in counter trend before I exit, especially during the strong trend.

Again. Ok wow. Nice. That totally makes sense. I think Al generally trades like that too.

I was asking about your trading plan, in regard to the the second last trade, on the high of the day, you mentioned on the image below (you've posted it about a week ago).

Oh for sure. My focus that day was to only buy and just keep buying until you are sure you shouldn't.

If I recall correctly I didn't put a single sell order in after 8am (PST) and for the remainder of the day.

Those trends can go farther than you think possible and that's one way I keep myself on the right side.

Truthfully I think I would have started selling closes up there by now lessening profits that day but I stuck to my plan that day.

I try to take profits before I have signals to do so in the opposite direction as well and will re-enter if shakiness subsides.

Given that day again I don't know how I'd trade it. Every day is different. Every snowflake from a distance looks like a snowflake, yet each is completely different.

With kind regards,

Same!

Good trading to you! And all!

Hi SandPaddict, 

We really appreciate your thoughts and opinions but I am just not sure what they all have to do with the subject of this post? 

I opened this thread asking a specific question regarding trade management for Always-In traders and was looking for other people to comment regarding the topic. 

At this point, I am really not sure what your comments have to do with trade management using tight stops. I would really appreciate if you open a different post where you can vent your frustration. Make sure you title it appropriately.

Right now it is very difficult to follow constructive comments related to this thread's topic. 

Regarding Al disclosing trades and the United States NFA/SEC/FINRA regulations:

I wanted to clarify as I am a licensed Financial Advisor and a licensed registered representative for a broker-dealer. What this means is that there are specific rules regarding any security product (stock, bond, ETF, mutual fund, etc.) that I am required to follow, which allows me to be paid to give financial advice and trading advice for any security related product. (note I am not a member of the National Futures Association, so I cannot be paid for futures advice.) The reason I am bringing all of this up is that the rules are stringent. Being under the spotlight of the regulators; I can understand why Al is cautious about disclosing what he does. The reason for this would be that he is selling a service (trading course). If he began to disclose his trades, he would very likely be required to become licensed by the NFA, which means disclosing all of his futures brokerage accounts, taking a series of tests, registering in several states, etc. and I highly doubt that Al wants to do all of that. All in all, if you are giving financial advice and are paid for it either directly or indirectly, you must be licensed. This is why if he is careful about saying what he did and cautious about not giving real-time trading advice, he can get around the rule and not be considered to be providing investment advice.

To be clear, I am not here about soliciting my business as a financial advisor/registered rep; I am simply disclosing the above to make the point that the United States regulatory bodies (FINRA/SEC/NFA) are strict.

Lastly, regarding Al showing a Trading Style:

It almost certainly does show his trading style, but it takes a long time to begin to see it. I will sum it up like this; First, Al started trading Always-In and exiting when the Always-in traders went. After doing that for some time, he realized he could take profits quicker and maximize more profit (aka if long exit on strong closes or buy climax bars.). After that, Al started scalping more, perhaps counter-trend. When you watch his course and see him point out what traders are doing, it is the same thing he would do in those situations, so buying the close of breakout bars, stop entries of Major trend reversals, fading the first reversal of a Breakout expecting it to fail, all of these Al regularly takes.

To those of you looking for a simple solution regarding trading, you are not going to find it. Trading can become more and more simple, but it takes a long time, and it is a lot of screen time and time watching Al's video course. Al once said on a podcast the best quality a trader starting can have is persistence for the simple fact that it is very challenging, and if you do not have persistence, you will most likely quit due to the frustration. If you are frustrated with Al or trading (I have been many times), I suggest reviewing one of his trading course videos and asking yourself what I am missing.

Hope this helps.

Brad

Posted by: @brad-wolff48gmail-com

...

This is why if he is careful about saying what he did and cautious about not giving real-time trading advice, he can get around the rule and not be considered to be providing investment advice.

This is my point. Al doesnt have to do anything he doesnt want to and I dont blame him but this just leads me to believe I was correct as you chose your words wisely too.

Yes, Al is careful to NOT GIVE LIVE ADVICE as this would require licensing.

He is NOT able to advise. I get that but you said your self "real-time trading advice".

But you aslo did mention because he has a trading course.

Question: So he cannot disclose closed trades in the past that have no way of being construed as buy/sell advice?

Lastly, regarding Al showing a Trading Style:

It almost certainly does show his trading style, but it takes a long time to begin to see it. I will sum it up like this; First, Al started trading Always-In and exiting when the Always-in traders went. After doing that for some time, he realized he could take profits quicker and maximize more profit (aka if long exit on strong closes or buy climax bars.). After that, Al started scalping more, perhaps counter-trend. When you watch his course and see him point out what traders are doing, it is the same thing he would do in those situations, so buying the close of breakout bars, stop entries of Major trend reversals, fading the first reversal of a Breakout expecting it to fail, all of these Al regularly takes.

OMG that's it! That's the confusion! His materials and trading style are different over time. You are so right!

...As are mine. That was my path too without realizing it. Kinda mind blown right now. Although I had to learn on my own after the basics.

That was a real eye opening paragraph Brad.

To those of you looking for a simple solution regarding trading, you are not going to find it. Trading can become more and more simple, but it takes a long time, and it is a lot of screen time and time watching Al's video course. Al once said on a podcast the best quality a trader starting can have is persistence for the simple fact that it is very challenging, and if you do not have persistence, you will most likely quit due to the frustration. If you are frustrated with Al or trading (I have been many times), I suggest reviewing one of his trading course videos and asking yourself what I am missing.

For me this is where we diverge. I always end up loosing more trying to interpret what Al would do. (But I'm no Ludopuig)

I am at the stage where I don't have to add money anymore to my account because I've eliminated the worst traits of my trading but I have a way to go and much easier to rely on myself then wonder what Al would do.

Been through the regular course many times and the forex one right through as well. No more good will come of it.

I like to chat as I trade. Have to find a different venue lol.

Hope this helps.

It did thank you!

Brad

Everybody will differ. Richard helped Al create a smaller version of the brooksradingcourse that is helpful.  Since Al and Richard made the course I do not think they will get upset if I post the link below. I link the course because its a much shorter course that helps get to the overall key points. 

I do not think the below link is a replacement of the full brooks trading course but it can definitely help. SandPaddict the link below may help if you have not checked it out. Its 6 hours of a few ways to trade a Major Trend reversal, Pull backs, Trading Ranges and Breakouts. 

Overall, One key point that Al often says it to keep things simple. If you are making money than nobody can tell you if you are doing anything wrong. I have watched Al for so long in the Trading Room that it is kinda second nature to think in my head "what would Al do here". Everybody is different though. 

Hope this helps as well. 

You said it. If I'm making money than it doesn't matter. I need to trust myself.

Even when I make money I think I'm doing wrong if I think Al wouldn't do it that way.

Maybe that's my problem.

I started a new thread to leave this poor thread to its original question.

Thanks Brad. I like your YouTube as well!